I don't normally do this, but I happened to be fucking around on YouTube this evening, and came across this video of Taliban insurgents ambushing a patrol from the 101st Airborne Division (AASLT). I'm posting the link, and I'm going to make some comments in critique of the actions. Call it an armchair AAR, if you will.
Conventional Force (U.S. Actions)
- When the enemy rounds first start impacting, everyone moves to a relative position of cover. Not a bad idea. Rocks are generally better at stopping bullets than body armor, in my experience.
- Communications aren't too bad. The key leaders are trying to communicate to their Joes. Never a bad thing, although I see a whole lot of junior guys who would be getting some serious wall-to-wall counseling upon return to the FOB, since none them seem to give two shits what their leaders are telling them to do.
- At 2:07, the video shows the patrol traipsing down a road, like they are on a fucking walk in the park. It's a good thing Hajji went to AKMs in the 80s, and subsequently loss any cultural heritage of marksmanship. Three well-trained riflemen with decent weapons could have dropped half the patrol in a couple of seconds.
- Nobody is really making any use of cover. Guys are sitting and kneeling on the rocks, or standing around. When bullets fly, your best bet is to hug the ground.
- At around 4:30, when they are being instructed to move the fuck out, or be outmaneuvered, they are too busy looking pitiful to actually do what the fuck they need to do.
Ultimately, while a few guys are trying to return fire, no one in that patrol showed any interest whatsoever, in aggressing forward and taking the fight to the enemy. Instead, they decide to sit on their asses and wait for air support. Even after the Kiowas arrive, they “bound out of the valley to the safety of their vehicles” instead of killing the enemy.
Unconventional Force (Taliban)
- The Talibs wait until the Americans are in a shitty spot to engage. They chose a well-canalized piece of key terrain, with ample fields of fire, and little cover of real value. They chose an ambush site with poor footing that would keep the U.S. Forces from effectively maneuvering well, and chose to assault from the high ground, with stand-off attacks.
- To their detriment, none of them are apparently fuck-all for marksmen, since they didn't hit a single motherfucker, despite the fact that the American soldiers were traipsing down the road out in the open (did I mention the traipsing down the road part already?).
- This lack of marksmanship ability, meant that they ended up staying in the engagement long enough for the U.S. Forces to call for air support. A far more effective method would have been to have a small element of well-trained marksmen to engage the U.S. element, killing or wounding several, then exfil the ambush zone, under cover, as rapidly as tactically possible, while still staying alert for incoming air support. When the air support was inbound, they could have simply disappeared in the rocks (big rocks offer enough of a thermal mass to provide a barrier from FLIR imaging, even at night), until the aircraft left for refueling, then continued their exfiltration.
- Further, consider the implications if the Talibs had used a remote-detonated IED to initiate the ambush (much like American infantry forces have long used the Claymore initiated ambush), followed by a barrage of well-aimed rifle fire....It would not have been hard to hide a well-placed IED/mine in that terrain that would have seriously impacted the Americans' OODA loops, if not killed or wounded several.
(I assume it goes without saying that there are numerous other lessons that can be learned from this video...These are just what jumped out at me in an initial viewing)
This is not intended to be critical of the Puking Buzzards in the video. I'm sincerely glad that none of them were killed or injured, but....next time someone tells you there's no way to beat a conventional military force with the strength and technology of the U.S. Army, consider this video, and the lessons to be learned from it....
Excellent commentary.
ReplyDeleteI too am glad that none of the US guys got killed. The sad part is that the reason none of them died is because of failures on the Taliban's part and not successes on theirs.
I have never seen combat and I am glad of it, but we trained better than that when I was in.
I realize there are a lot of conflicting emotions going on for some soldiers and from talking to my buddies from when I was in, moral is nowhere near as good as it was back then, but for crying out loud... whether you want to be there or not, whether you agree with your given mission or not, you're in a combat zone where people are actively trying to kill you. You might want to act like you want to live, Otherwise you may not be so lucky next time.
OK, enough expressing my bewilderment at the actions of those US troops. There are a lot of lessons that can be learned from this video, and the ones you listed are right there at the top.
Proper Planning required... enough said.
I'm glad none of the US troops got hurt, I'm also shocked no one got hurt. A proper set us ambush by a force with any marksmanship skill would have been a different story.
ReplyDeleteAccurate fire at the lead and tail end of the unit would have frozen them in a kill zone. Accurate mortar fire then could have tore them a new butt hole.
An L type ambush across their line of march with everyone, including the mortars opening up after the opening shot would have shocked that unit, left too many dead and injured to move. It would have been very nasty.
Thank God the rag heads showed zero marksmanship skills, and were so unorganized, or this would have been on the news, like those poor guys dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge.
I agree two claymoors and some accurate fire and none of them would have made it out alive.
Thanks JM. Another one for the training archive.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the excellent analysis. This is definitely eye-opening stuff here.
ReplyDeleteI know it is easy to arm-chair quarterback, but I think an important aspect of this video is the behavior of a volunteer force versus a conscript force. As time goes on, that post-911 zeal we all shared gets tempered by a certain amount of WTF. And many of the very junior guys are, in some cases, economic draftees. By this, I mean that many of them wouldn't be in the military right now if the economy hadn't been crushed into the dirt. This doesn't mean that they aren't patriotic and all that, just that at some point for some the "it's not an adventure, it's just a job" effect sets in.
And understandably so. Why press the attack on the "enemy" when they aren't the ones that wrecked the economy, put people out on the street in your town, and shipped jobs overseas? From that point of view in the heat of things, just getting through the day the best you can is one of many survival strategies. I think the planning levels are seriously overestimating the inclination for Joe Snuffy to lean into the enemy with this latest Iran drum-beating.
If you don't fully comprehend the impact of that, then take some time and hang out around a recruiting center (especially one in a now-gutted mall with most of the storefronts closed). Get a feel for the motivations of people coming in. Many of them don't like having to make that choice, which is really no choice at all. I say this as a former Marine Corps recruiting Operations Officer (MCRS Cincinnati) and Desert Storm (air wing, I know, pile on) veteran; the motivational difference to me from then to now is startling.
One day, when TPTB run out of "volunteers" and start actual conscription ala the recent Presidential Executive Order, expect battlefield morale to take another dramatic step downward. I'm only surprised that battlefield assassinations aren't already at an all-time high. If a unit from the 101st can be analyzed from this perspective, imagine how much greater this effect might be in a normal line or National Guard unit? Now add to that an explicit, rather than economic, draft.
On another note, lacking highly skilled marksmen, for guys with a penchant for remote IEDs, in retrospect a good place for an IED would have been behind that big lone rock. I was surprised at how many battle-hardened veterans wound up behind that, and later, that rock wall. Might be a good thing to leave TPTB some obvious cover in your AO someday ...
Some years ago I was an active duty NCO advisor to an Army Guard infantry battalion. At the time we were training with 24 ID out of Fort Stewart. During a field exercise I had a 24 ID 1SG tell me he wished his troops were as well-trained and motivated as my ARNG troops. He remarked that all he ever heard was "I'm jist in it for the college money".
DeleteDon't underestimate Guard troops.
DAN III
Pennsylvania
Tom,
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand and agree with your assessment of the reasonings, re: economic draftees, "who the fuck wants to get killed when we're leaving in less than a year?" I still have to look at the situation from the perspective of the simple, knuckle-dragging gunslinger that I am at heart....Regardless of the outcome of this particular fiasco, sitting on your ass when bad guys are trying to kill you, no matter how amateur the bad guys happen to be on that particular day, is generally a recipe for disaster.
There is a relatively large amount of intel information coming out of the Stan that indicates the Talibs are waking up and remembering their heritage as alpine riflemen, with an increasing demand for old Enfields and other "obsolete" bolt-action rifles. Increasing sniper attacks, with commensurately increasing levels of marksmanship indicate the AK-style marksmanship displayed in this video is not what our guys should be expecting when that first shot breaks out.
ND,
JM
As far as the 101st versus a "normal line unit or NG unit" I wouldn't buy too much into the "dope on a rope," "puking buzzard" recruiter marketing. Regardless of the elite status of the 101st in our fathers' and grandfathers' days, the 101st today IS a line unit.
John,
ReplyDeleteAs usual, you make an effective point. I wonder whether battlefield passivity has evolved in the face of (currently) ineffective ambush tactics.
Ominously, the same could be said for the home-front. Survival strategies that are effective in the face of routine traffic stops, TSA grope-fests or even the run of the mill official home invasion may have trained us to not recognize the They've Come To Take Me Away event for what it is. That is a hard nut to crack, for sure.
Anyway, thanks again for all the great information you make available.
Tom
Dang, things have changed since I was in the Infantry.
ReplyDeleteBack then (85-88) we trained to fight the Russians, who were 10 ft. tall and tough as nails, so we had to be meaner and smarter and train harder than they did. We trained to fight them in the hills, the valleys, the deserts, forests, and jungles.
When ambushed, training was to charge through and flank the ambushers and destroy them.
Third times the charm...
ReplyDeleteGood points, a little obvious as you said. Towards the end of the video there is around a sections worth (eight) guys crowding around the wall for cover. A PP-IED or a well aimed (or lucky) mortar round and thats someones day fucked.
In my experience on patrol we would be ambushed and then supress using organic weapon systems. Then extract under our own steam. We didn't assault due to the IED threat. Which may go some way to explaining why the Airborne guys didnt push forward. Although as stated, they were more than happy to bound through those rocks without clearing them.
As a side note someone need to slap that reporter and tell him to shut the fuck up. Its not his place to tell trained troops when to move or what to do. Dick.
As always and interesting piece.
I got the impression that the camera guy was appalled at the lack of movement to the orders given. Basically, someone gave the order to move and these guys just sat there and he got a little concerned for his own safety.
DeleteCruachan!
Highlander
Tom,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the passivity IS a result of the inability of the Taliban to do fuck-all. It is STILL a failure of training and leadership. As far as the relation to stateside issues, yeah, I'm in a quandary on that too, as mentioned via email.
Sanders,
While I (obviously) agree that they needed to be far more aggressive, I also recognize that the fire and maneuver that may have worked against Russian conscripts being shoved through the Fulda Gap needed to be modified to face a better-acclimated alpine guerrilla threat. Trust me, there is no "charging" up an Afghani mountain with battle rattle on, at least not for more than a couple of meters. Fort Campbell is no more than a couple thousand feet above sea level. That valley is probably close to 10,000 feet. Acclimatization only does so much. It appears however, that the 101st threw the baby out with the bathwater.
EnglishAdventurer,
1) To be a dogmatic asshole, the 101st, despite its name, is NOT an airborne unit (other than their CSAR and LRSD). Those are not paratroopers. They haven't been since the 1970s, when the whole division became the "finest air assault division in the world" (ignore the fact they are the ONLY dedicated "air assault division in the world."
2) I agree that the IED/mines issue makes aggressing the threat a hazard, but, as you point out, the real issue was their complete lack of aggressiveness, at all. Even if their fire and maneuver consisted solely of organic suppressive fire, while a maneuver element moved to a better position to engage with accurate, aimed fire, they would have been more effective. They were obviously not out-manned in that engagement. At some point, the leaders HAVE to make the tactical decision to take the initiative and kill the enemy. The US military is however, far too risk averse, to put (God forbid!) COMBAT-FUCKING-INFANTRYMEN (!!!!) into a situation that might result in lost lives. It was, in the end, a total fuck-up.
3) For the record, I understood it was the PL telling the Joes what to do, and wearing the helmet cam. If it was the reporter, then I agree, on one level, someone needed to stand up and throat punch his stupid ass. On the other hand though, those "trained troops" obviously needed SOMEONE to tell them what to do, and their PL and PSG sure as shit didn't seem interested in doing their jobs....
I apologise for the error. Air Assault then.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they weren't outmanned or outgunned. Nor were they in a position where they couldnt of used the platoons marksmen to engage. Instead from what I saw he was more interested in standing around out of cover cradling his rifle.
I thought it was the reporter with the helmet cam. I was catching glimpses of a hand held cam. If it was indeed the PL's cam then that makes it worse and the PL needs a slap.
I'm gonna have to go against the grain here a bit
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, I have seen combat against insurgents, albeit in the shit-fuck palm groves just north of Baghdad back in 05 when it was damn near a free fire zone.
These guys are at the ass end of a 6 hour foot patrol in some rugged assed mountains. The mooj is waaaay the hell up on the mountain outside of the effective range of their akm's and probably even Pkm's if they have any.
This is a harassment ambush.
Harassing fire from a position so damn far away that the conventional force is not gonna be able to maneuver to them.
They got to bust off some rounds, watch each other yell Allah ackbar and go home to their goat for another day, and show the local villagers how they stood up to the big bad Americans. They'll probably tell the villagers they killed the shit out of the infidels.
From the joes perspective,
You can't just 3-5 second rush straight up a damn near vertical 3000 foot mountain that has no cover on it. It'd take all damn day to get up there IF you could find a trail. Let alone straight up the slope comprised of little football like rocks. Ever climb a big gravel pile?
Did I mention after 6 hours already of packing around all that fucking bullshit? I'm not talking an mre in a little bob. But fucking 240 ammo, mortars, and untold silly bullshit that the good-idea fairy wants u to pack.
I shit you not. I've been in the situation before. So fucking exhausted you just don't give much of a fuck. If they were close. Fuck yeah, face shoot some assholes. But this weak ass ambush?
Heres my no bs interpretation:
Harassment ambush outside the effective range of both sides small arms.
Fuck you, I'm so fucking hot, tired, and exhausted, from humping all this bullshit around, that I'm gonna sit right here behind this rock till the fucking bird comes. They ain't gonna hit shit, I ain't gonna hit shit, and the bird is gonna blast them to shit in about 4 mikes.
Ok, birds here, let's bound out.
The mooj here picked the site less for effectiveness and more for their own safety. They just fucked up and stayed till the bird came.
Lessons: in mountain warfare travel light light light! Balance ammo capacity with range. M4? Really? How about a 20 inch acog'd a4 at least. And pt you fing ass off NOW.
P.s. M14 ebb guy needs skull fucked for muzzle discipline.
P.p.s. Army wisdom. Only place on earth acu works is a-Stan. So the only place on earth army replaces it? A-Stan. Lol.
- SoL
SoL, spot on, man. Agree 100%
DeleteI spent some time in Iraq too, and yeah, your tired. To bad, you still need to keep your ass awake! The big problem I saw was that there was no discipline, not from the troops or the NCOs. No one seemed to be actually incharge. The idiot with the M-14 just standing around!?! His job is to suppress a far ambush, along with the 240. If I am correct they should have had four of the '14s that should have given them the ability to egress. Prior to going to Iraq my platoon trained hard on reacting to an ambush, both near and far.
Deletenobody's talking about falling asleep here, just not treating every time some stupid mooj comes out to pop off rounds like its Iwo-Jima.
DeleteOdd's are those taliban are 1200-1400 meters away or more.
i'd be willing to bet that the mooj here are out of point target range for the 240. and i dont know much about the ranges of the EBR, but i'd bet i'ts not even as good as the 240.you can burn up your belts and barrels suppressing a mountain if you want....i guess it'd make the walk home lighter.
theres a difference between a proper for real ambush, and some guy out poppin off rounds from BFE to lure the patrol into a serious ambush or IED, distract the patrol while his buddies leave the AO or accomplish some other task, or just to get a rush and do what he thinks is gods work for a day.
And by the way, thats the CAMERAMAN yelling like a bitch to "move!, move!, move!"..."we got to get out of here, or we're surrounded!" stfu cameraguy, we're not just gonna run away like bitches cause somebody put lead downrange. we're gonna figure out if we're gonna stay and play, if its a waste of our time, or if we have other assets at our disposal (which they did). don't let some civilian cameraguy's scared commentary place mental filters on the video that don't necessarily belong there.
this isnt a close complex attack,nor blackhawk down. it's just war. it's there every day. and it's NOT always fast paced kickin-in doors and face-shootin.
but i digress.
i'm inclined to believe that JM's purpose of posting this vid is to
learn lessons from this for future use:
not have a pissin contest of "if i were there i woulda run up that hill and butt-stroked them to death with my m1a." or issue article 15's to American GI's from a cheeto's covered armchair.
so once again: lets think critically:
Armor: is it viable in a freefor op? probably not in the form seen here. full wrap around, side sapi, and miles of molle shit hangin everywhere.
i think maybe a minimalist plate-carrier is the heaviest a mountain fighter would want to go.
Packs: having a big tick full of woobies and old issues of playboy is gonna make you a turtle. a big slow, cumbersome always falling, stubmling, turtle. your toothbrush should be your luxury item. light! light! light!
Weapons: is that .308 reeeally gonna get you that extra standoff range? how much ammo can you carry for it, and comparably how much heavier is the weapons system. the heavy caliber andvantage might be crutial in your AO (like it could have been here in this video....open terrain) but in well wooded alpine terrain, an accurized smaller caliber rifle might be a wise choice. or perhaps a lightweight flat-shooting modern deer rifle, coupled with with a sbr or carbine.
tactics: terrain control. here the high ground provided an overwatch position for the mooj to monitor and (ineffectively) engage the enemy. perhaps a better tactic would have been intel gathering. and after establishing patrol patterns, use that info to emplace mines/ied's for maximum effect.
-SoL
As someone who has been to Iraq twice and Afghanistan once, I completely agree with SOL. Afghanistan is not JRTC running around doing movement to contact, reacting to near/far ambushes fighting the "russians". Afghanistan is full of giant mountains, with a good spot to set up an ambush every 5 feet. These guys had at least one 60mm mortar, and I saw at least 1 M14 with that shitty EBR stock on it, those should have been used.
ReplyDeleteThanks MG for the good post.
HavocOne
Gosh, The first thing that popped out at me was I didn't see or hear (admittedly I could have missed it) that 60mm mortar. Also lots of standing up and almost milling around. Next I am supprised that A) they didn't initiate with an IED as that is about standard for a good reason and B) that they stuck around. My perspective of that side is that sticking around only really makes sense if they are going to achieve some goal (they weren't) or are a blocking force for a larger element trying to get out of the AO.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah also soldiers were much bigger, faster, stronger and better trained back in my day;)
I saw no 'glass ' on the hills except scopes with no call except over there
ReplyDeleteno back watch with glass
In Vietnam.....these guys would be dead...........PERIOD!
ReplyDeleteThink these guys are dispirited?
DeleteApplying this video to our end of the globe:
1. Yes we'll outshoot any enemy.
2. A lot of densely built areas can provide an equivalent amount and quality of ambush and sniping positions, plus our road network allows much greater mobility.
3. I suspect that America will be played for keeps instead of Afghanistan which seems to be held just securely enough for the poppy to flow. I would expect tireless drones plus real Air Force support. That being said, a high enough operations tempo will largely neutralize that air support.
4. Support for both sides will be quicker to arrive generally.
5. Oh yeah, an IED of any kind would've done them in.
I didn't realize they had enlisted autistic troops since the demise of "McNamara's 100,000" program in the 1960s.
ReplyDeleteI've seen better combat sense at paintball fields.
This video most reminded me of the scene in "First Blood" when the WA ARNG had Rambo pinned in the mine, and once he returns fire, their drugstore asst mgr. LT has to cajole someone into shooting back. Except in the movie, they had higher motivation.
And BTW, we all know (even if the YouTube legions don't) that no matter how much crap and ammo you hang on a Kiowa, it's NOT an "attack" helo, it's a LOH. Calling a chihuahua a pitbull on crack may sound cool, but they aren't the same thing.
Flame on, but these guys, regardless of their motivations, how their day went, or whether their inner child was hungry for cookies and a nap, were simply pathetic. If those are the kind of guys we're sending out on patrol in the 'stan, let's GTFO and schedule the 101st for some...like, infantry training, perhaps?
Or else issue sandbags and send 'em back to shoring up levees during flood season along the Mississippi. With adult supervision, for safety.
/RANT
And seriously, if hadji can put AKM rounds close enough to get your attention, then they're clearly in range of 7.62, so WTF is up with no M-14 return fire?? Why isn't anyone glassing the ridgeline?? Why in hell isn't someone suppressing/marking with WP from that mortar, without even being told?
And when did it become SOP to rest weapons with the muzzle stuck in the dirt while under ambush, however ineptly conducted by the other team?
Jeebus freakin' creepers, this is like Infantry AIT Day Three stuff.
Admittedly, they may be spending a lot more time on homosexuality sensitivity training and latrine etiquette these days, but the Army still covers FM 21-75 topics for troops at some point before they attend their branch SNCO academy, don't they?!?
The video did help me in one way. I didn't really care for the movie "Sgt. Bilko" with Steve Martin. But until now, I didn't realize it was a documentary.
- Aesop
I saw a mobile and light enemy maneuver element define the battle space for a lot of tired and weighed down dudes. They weren't concerned about locating where the fire was coming from or killing the enemy because, the sop when you've had a situational awareness fail due to fatigue or stupid mission planning, is to not get killed until CAS arrives. That SOP is IMO a systemic issue because the .mil is afraid of casualties, so there is a weird dichotomy; on the one hand Soldier, you are to locate, close with, and kill the enemy, but I don't want you to get hurt so here's some Esapi side plate to go with your groin protector. Oh you can't maneuver well anymore? No problem, hopefully you'll have CAS on tap. It stands to reason that SF/UW types have a.) much greater success killing muj/haj. b.)Extremely high relative casualty rates. They are in the fight defining the battlespace for the enemy inside his safe zone, not patrolling into a fucking kill zone from hell. My take, to agree with SOL, is mobility is life and using conventional tactics against an unconventional enemy didn't work out so well for G. Washington when he met the British on their battle field using their tactics either.
ReplyDeleteWhen I watched the video, I had just finished reading Rommels's "Infantry Attacks". The contrast between the leadership and aggressiveness of the (then) German and (current) American armies was not flattering to our side. Comparing the German grunts as presented in the book and the American troops as shown in the video was even worse. The Germans fought up and down the Carpathian Mountains for 24 to 36 hours straight, time after time, with no sleep and no food for all that time. While doing this, they were carrying water-cooled heavy machine guns, their supporting equipment, and ammunition. How the guys from the 101st fought is obvious. I hope for their sake that they never have to face a first class opponent.
ReplyDelete